The Arizona Guardian

By Patti Epler
The Arizona Guardian
 
In the three months since Ben Grumbles has been director of the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality, he's watched his agency lose tens of millions of dollars in budget cuts and fund sweeps.
 
In fact, the agency itself came close to being wiped out through a sunset fight, but in the end was given another five years.
 
But Grumbles, a former high-ranking U.S. Environmental Protection Agency administrator who left when the Democrat President Barack Obama came into office, is still convinced DEQ can both protect the environment and promote economic growth.
 
To that end, he's recently been talking to business leaders and the press about his vision for DEQ and how it can help move Arizona forward despite a tough budget situation and political pressures.
 
His talking points are consistent: DEQ needs to use sound science to make decisions that will be defensible to both the business and environmental communities. All stakeholders, including local governments, need to be brought in on the front end of permit decisions or setting standards.
 
For next year's budget, he's proposed that companies pay higher fees and in some cases new fees on certain permits they apply for, permits that cost the agency a lot of money to process. It's part of his effort to keep the federal government from stepping in and taking over programs.
 
Grumbles created a blue-ribbon panel to be led by himself, Kris Mayes of the Arizona Corporation Commission and Herb Guenther of the Department of Water Resources to figure out how to better protect and manage the state's precious water. He envisions the group to include representatives from business, conservation organizations, local government and universities. He has high hopes that they will come up with a "roadmap" not only for solutions to Arizona's water problems but one that will connect water and energy in a way that will set the state on track for economic development and the creation of new jobs.

"I'm interested in pragmatic and proactive steps to increase environmental progress and energy efficiency," Grumbles said in a recent interview. "Building design and products and practices that use less water and less energy are all important."

Pragmatic is a word Grumbles uses a lot. So is balanced.

But the words he's using for his grand vision all start with C -- the "three Cs," he calls them. And he swears it's not a play on Arizona's five Cs.

Q. OK, so let's hear the three Cs.

A. The first one is really conservation of water. I'm using it in the broadest sense so it is more than just using less water. It also encompasses being more efficient with water and it's all about water sustainability. Conserving water through technology and innovation, using it more efficiently through products and appliances. And also reusing water -- recycling gray water and reclaiming and reusing waste water. Those are in particular is going to be a major area of focus for me and other members of this blue ribbon panel ...

The more we reclaim and recycle water -- used water and gray water and storm water -- the more we can save in stream and underground fresh water supplies. And given the projections about climate change and drought and anticipated population pressures in urban areas and even in some rural areas, the more important it is for us to reduce, reuse and restore. … And so for me water is going to be a priority because it truly is the lifeblood of the state's environment and economy. And it's one of the most pressing environmental issues for the state.

Q. Number Two?

A. The second C is clean energy. Clean energy, climate and growth is what I am calling it. In the past DEQ not been a major player in energy-related decisions. However, because of our involvement in the Western Climate Initiative and because of our permitting and standard-setting responsibilities under the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act in particular, I see a growing importance of our agency being involed in advancing the clean energy movement and in particular renewable energy. Gov. Brewer has talked to me on several occasions about the importance of renewable energy and the green jobs movement in Arizona. Solar power in particular has been identified as a great opportunity in this state. We've got some catching up to do and it's not just the energy office or the Corporation Commission, it also involves our agency. When we're looking at the air permits and water permits for some of these new solar power generating facilities that want to move to the state of Arizona, it's important to promote clean renewable energy. It's also important to look carefully at the water footprint and the landscape footprint of these various projects. Arizona also has the opportunity to be one of the leading places in the nation for algae biofuels research and deployment.

It also means for me a priority is staying engaged in the climate debate, watching what our other states are doing on the cap-and-trade proposals and giving Congress and the EPA an Arizona perspective on strategies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. I'm a big supporter of innovative and pragmatic approaches to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

I'm of the view that we should take a no-regrets approach, where if there are things that make environmental and economic sense than let's move forward with them. And that's where green building and energy and water efficiencies come into play. You can reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
 
Q. Sen. Sylvia Allen recently held her committee on climate change and cap-and-trade. I noticed she didn't invite you to be on the panel.

A. I think it's important to ask questions, to be skeptical about what government scientists say. But I also think it's important to focus at this point in the debate on the solutions that are being proposed. We're focusing a lot of time on what Congress is proposing or developing and providing our input ... about priority issues in Arizona, and that includes nuclear power and it includes looking at coal. … Coal is a very important part of our energy supply, and so for me, in the second C on energy growth, it's important to look for ways to make it cleaner, to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through technologies and incentives, to continue to explore carbon capture and sequestration of CO2 and advance smart transportation and smart growth concepts. We are reviewing the Clean Car tailpipe emissions regulations that EPA and the federal Department of Transportation have just proposed. It's important to look at the proposed solutions and ask tough questions like are these cost effective and are there other ways that we can reduce greenhouse gas emissions and contribute to a greener economy in the state of Arizona.

Q. And the third C?

A. It's collaboration. Collaboration is the key to getting environmental results. What I mean by collaboration is both inside the agency but also outside in how we work with the regulated community and stakeholders and the public when we develop policy. It’s a high priority for me to promote early, up-front collaborations with the regulated community and the stakeholders and the public when we are developing policy. (Multi-sector general permits for storm water discharges and recycling electronic waste such as TVs or computers are collaborations the agency is involved in, he says.) …

The other thing I'll mention about collaboration from a place-based perspective is I think the key to dealing with difficult environmental challenges within regions of the state is to have regional collaborations. The Mexico border and the Colorado River are two areas that are extremely important to me and that need to have regional collaborations. Previous governors have shown support for the Mexico collaboration and Gov. Brewer has signaled that’s a priority as well. There are significant air and waste and water problems that threaten Arizona citizens and there are also business opportunities we can create. And it's also about being good neighbors. The Colorado River one has not received the attention that it deserves, and I'm talking about water quality. There are some emerging water quality challenges that need a regional focus.

It's important to convene meetings and develop priorities for federal scientists and government researchers to identify what are the most pressing problems and can we develop solutions that transcend political and bureaucratic boundaries. (Nitrates from septic systems, pharmaceuticals, radioactive waste are problems, he says. Also biological pollutants like the quagga mussel.) So I think collaboration means going beyond just the agency and working with others on complex regional challenges.

Q. DEQ has been under fire politically and challenged budgetwise. How are you going to make the three Cs work in the political climate that is the state of Arizona?

A. One of the most important groups to collaborate with is the Legislature. … I came from EPA which was often under fire, from the environmental community as much as the business community. So I'm used to sitting where there are particular decisions made that one or another group will not be happy with. Sometimes what you have to do is just make the tough decisions based on the science and be transparent about it. And let the policymakers have a chance to modify or debate the approach you'd like to take. (The problems) are often times about the lack of consulting and collaborating with the Legislature in letting those who oversee the agency and oversee the budget know what you wanted to do. My background has been one that is very comfortable reaching out to the legislative branch. People won't always agree on approaches, but I feel strongly that Arizona needs to continue to make environmental progress while maintaining our state's economic competitiveness. And my job is to fulfill the agency's mission of protecting public health and the environment. …

We understand very very much that it's important to work with business, not against business. Economic development and environmental protection go hand in hand. If they're not done correctly, if we're making decisions that are not based on sound science, if we're not collaborating, it leads to confrontation and litigation. I want to avoid that as much as possible.

I think it's good to be skeptical of government studies or government actions. And I think the Legislature has many who really want to look under the hood and particularly in this era where budgets are tight and you need to be as efficient and as practical as possible and bring more jobs into this state. I understand that. But I also feel strongly that we must continue to move forward with environmental protections. And there are opportunities. Rather than just battling over whether or not to take one step or another on the science of global warming, I think it's also important as that debate continues to play out to take pragmatic and proactive steps that reduce greenhouse gas emissions, reduce energy and water consumption and promote green jobs.

Q. The political leanings of the state and the federal government have been swapped with the new administrations. Frankly it seems like the feds now have the upper hand over regulations and programs. Is federal government now in the position of stepping in and saying the state is screwing this all up and we're just going to take it back?

A. It's important to have national standards but state and local solutions. I think cooperative federalism is a great model and that means that cross-cutting interstate federal issues need federal attention to develop the broad national standards. But when it comes to running a permitting program or cleaning up sites or responding to emergencies, it's almost always better to have the state and local perspective. … For me it’s a priority to ensure that Arizona environmental programs are run in Arizona and have decisions that are made here in Arizona rather than on the West Coast or the East Coast. …

I think many in the business community will have gripes or disagreements over particular permitting or standards or enforcement decisions made by my agency. But many also see the absolute importance of the state retaining it's delegated programs and not having them sent back to Washington, D.C. or San Francisco. It just makes sense to have those decisions made closest to those who are going to be governed by them.

The budget is a very important part of the debate that needs to occur. Gov. Brewer vetoed one of the budget provisions months ago specifically because it was taking away too much from our agency and our agency had already given a lot. Because there is that balance that if you take away too much from the agency and it cannot meet the legal requirement to run the program, the EPA will have no choice but to take back some of these programs. That must be an important part of the public debate and the Legislature's considerations. … But we fully recognize that we have to be stewards of the taxpayer's money and that we have to look for ways to be leaner and greener. …

We think this upcoming session is going to be critical because we need the ability to manage our programs but also we need some innovative new approaches but that also includes some that might be controversial like fees.

Q. That’s the fourth C -- controversy.

A. There you go.